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The conflicts surrounding all-terrain vehicle use in Juneau have continued throughout the years.
With a lack of legal places to ride, evidence of damage from off-roaders often shows up around the city, particularly once the weather warms.
City Lands and Resource Manager Heather Marlow said the problem lies in the fact that there really aren’t any city lands to speak of where such vehicles can ride.
“They can’t be on roads or parks and that’s how they end up on tidelands,” she said, noting similar statutes exist for state parks and highways.
Marlow said the different areas of city, federal or private ownership can often confuse riders as to where off-roading is legal. For example, off-roaders can ride out at the abandoned road corridor past the bridge at the end of Montana Creek Road.
She said the bottom line is there just aren’t enough areas for four-wheelers. This is something the city has struggled with for years.
Marlow said riders tend to ride collectively in the limited space ATV use is allowed. This intensifies the ill effects from such machines, and turns public sentiment, and the law, against them.
“There’s not a lot of riding areas to disperse the impacts,” she said.
Riders themselves have felt the frustration from trying to operate within legal limits without success.
James Tipps, president of the Rough Riders, a local group of ATV users, said they have tried to work with the city on this but have always come away with it remaining illegal. He said this can lead to four-wheeler users feeling like they’re not treated well in the city. More than occasionally, this can lead to riding in spite of the law.
Government agencies aren’t the only ones affected by ATV use, the city’s lands and resources manager said. Private companies also want to be active landowners and protect their lands from such damage, Marlow said.
One such company is Goldbelt, Inc., which owns approximately 1,400 acres in Echo Cove, an area that’s gotten its share of illegal riders over the years. Police Captain of Operations Ed Mercer said the posted signs in that area prohibit motor-driven vehicles.
Goldbelt Vice President of Operations Derek Duncan said the main issues the company takes with ATV use at Echo Cove is trespassing, plus the resulting damaged land and littering as well as safety risks.
Duncan said the signs of such vehicle use aren’t slowing down over the years. Evidence of ground damage shows up and riders are occasionally spotted by security.
Marlow agreed that Goldbelt has had a lot of land affected.
“It’s a recurring problem,” he said. “Every time we go out there, there are signs.”
Duncan said ATVs access the private property by going around gates, such as those leading to Pioneer Road and by the boat launch area, among other ways.
Goldbelt’s security goes out to Echo Cove on occasion. Duncan said he would like to see more patrolling out there, especially with the mix of various jurisdictions.
“I think more patrols out there by the government would help and that’s been discussed,” he said. “I think there’s got to be more of a presence out there.”
Mercer said there aren’t enough resources to send routine patrols out to Echo Cove. Police will prioritize major public safety issues out there though, such as issues with alcohol or guns. He encourages the public to call police in the event of any large safety issue.
He said besides that, they can’t respond to all the riders out there simply riding around.
He added officers under seasonal grants do sometimes patrol out there.
Mercer agrees reports of damage, littering and unruliness continue, and riders must heed the signs. He believes the problem of a lack of designated ATV areas can sometimes cause problems with how riders operate. And in the summer months, the vehicle numbers increase.
Tipps, of the Rough Riders, agreed multiple city and state laws also add to that frustration through confusion, such as rules governing staying below tide lines or difficulty in accessing legal areas.
Echo Cove is an example of this, as Mercer said a large portion is Goldbelt’s while small sections are city property and the beach is owned by the state. As such, ATVs are permitted in the parking lot but not on the adjacent land. He said there are also restrictions on running the vehicles on the beach, but those are typically enforced by the state.
Tipps said this shows how the limited areas can present problems, like being able to ride in the parking lot and beach but without being allowed to access one from the other.
He said vehicle users actually have fewer privileges than people realize.
Tipps said he doesn’t personally ride around the Goldbelt property at Echo Cove anymore but knows there are riders who do, mostly because there isn’t regular security in that area.
“It’s not something people are even worried about getting in trouble for,” he said.
The city has tried to tackle this issue before. For example, it worked with the Forest Service back in the 1990s to identify proper ATV areas, analyzing more than 20. The city pursued the Fish Creek Quarry site, but it was later denied by the Planning Commission.
Marlow said there are some new plans to give the four-wheelers some room. There is a plan for fiscal year 2012 to analyze a riding spot at the 35-mile area of Glacier Highway. She said it is still in the planning stages but initial estimates look positive.
“The best case scenario is construction would begin next year,” she said.
• Contact reporter Jonathan Grass at 523-2276 or at jonathan.grass@juneauempire.com.
Comments (44)
Add commentGive them somewhere to ride
How hard can that be, really?
Are you sure??
Are you sure that it was ATV operaters that caused the damage, were you there when it happened? This is the unreliable reporting that causes the people of Juneau to think poorly of ATVer's. Maybe it was a bird watcher that got mad because their bird flew away..
35 mile
The "35 mile area" near Bessie Creek has been in the works for over a year. How long does it take to "analyze" the area?
Ok but ...
OK, but what this article doesn't examine is WHY the laws were established in the first place. We all know ATVs aren't allowed to ride in certain areas, but what we may not know (and what the riders may also not know) is doing so can irreversibly damage fragile tidelands, vegetation and the organisms that reside in such areas. The reporter establishes over and over that this is an ongoing problem. So, what could the effects of such repetitive damage do to an area like Echo Cove?
Officials will continue to have this problem and environmentalists and recreationalists who care about maintaining our lands will continue to get angry unless a designated riding area is established!
This article also doesn't examine exactly why the other (20!) proposed ATV riding locations were denied.
Seems like if we can figure out a way to open up an huge abandoned mine, we can figure out a way to give the ATV riders somewhere legal to ride.
Also, does anyone else feel like this piece is one-sided?
@joneshut, it says in the article that witnesses have seen riders in illegal areas. Seems pretty reliable to me.
Give them somewhere to ride, indeed...
...somewhere that other people aren't trying to park their cars or launch their boats or fish or go for a hike. There's just enough idiots with ATVs in this town that it makes the entire group look bad.
Bessie Creek..
that area has been on the books since I rode and started an ATV group here back in the early 90's.. each time the groups were told " pack your bikes up and ride out of town" this came from a lovely city official after they took away Dredge Lake for the tourist on horseback, that venture lasted ONE season and the atv riders got it in the shorts. With all the parks, trails and areas in Juneau, ONE group is left out each time and promises broken..
those signs arent done by atv'er.. most of those signs are punks driving by thinking its fun to shoot signs, porta-potties, mailboxes and whatever is in their path. I personally cant drive an atv and shoot out things, let alone carry a gun and ride.. some of those sign have been that way for years and never fixed.. anything damaged is always blamed on a atv'er... come on juneau wake up and find your kids at night... our vehicals got broken into.. maybe an atv'er came in an stole from 6 of our cars and took my sons medications, and 2 ipods.. yup thats it.. an atv'er did it and carried away all those things and has silencers on the pipes so no one could hear them... blahahaha
Concerned Citizen
As an ATV rider, I am offended at the outright accusation that the damage to public property pictured in this article is blamed on local all terrain vehicle riders. Where is the proof behind this accusation? Was someone a witness to the crime?
Regarding the ongoing issue of land use.... this has, infact, been an ongoing issue for the last two decades that I am aware of. The environmentalists dont budge on the issue. Cruise ships dump sewage into our waters, helicopters create noise ordinance issues, local teens spray graffiti and commit arson in Juneau. Yet, ATV riders are villified, accused of lack of care and concern for the local environment. Truth be known, many of us are the folks picking up trash on the roads all year long. Many of us volunteer in the community to benefit local residents and the environment. Many of us hold public offices. Why are we denied access to a section of land when we are no more a problem than any other resident?
It seems clear that the tree hugging, soap box standing vocals will continue to villify us while we continue to uphold local laws, vote, clean our town and care for our neighbors. Additionally, while we continue this argument, many of us leave town with our bikes and spend money in other communities more supportive of our sport. Look local first means nothing when liberalist environmentalist agendas are placed before fairness in access and equity.
"Bullet-riddled signs mark
"Bullet-riddled signs mark the boundry of the parking lot at Echo Cove." Why would they put this picture in this article unless they were wanting people to think all ATV riders do is shot signs. I'm not saying that some might have shot a sign before, but was this reporter physically at this sign when it was shot by a ridder? I'm betting not. besides this sign has nothing to do with the city trying to find a new place for people to ride which is supposedly what this article is about. If we are going to get a place to ride the people will vote on it, now some people might remember that picture and say no cause they think all ridders are going to do is shoot everything up. bad taste!
CITY? As in CBJ?
This article was, in my opinion, written with an intentional slant to be misleading, including the cover photo. The piece also says "This is something the city has struggled with for years."
That's the problem, the 'CITY' as in CBJ hasn't struggled with diddly, it's the residents who've struggled. All we've seen from CBJ over last 25 years is deaf ears and foot dragging. I don't expect things to change.
PS - keep paying your property taxes so we can plant flowers and hoist flags for the tourists, k?
what about the valley behind Costco?
I thought that was under consideration? It would make more sense to me to develop an area that could be used by snowmachines in the winter, and ATVs in the summer - wide, well-fortified trails, large areas with some features for the inevitable jumping and spinning, etc.
I too am for finding somewhere for these folks to do their thing - however, you have to admit, concerned, Ketchikan and others - it does not make your group look good when the leader basically admits that if there's no legal place to ride - we'll just do it illegally.
We quit camping out at Echo
We quit camping out at Echo Cove years ago because of inconsiderate ATVers. I'm not saying all people who ride are at fault, but when riders go ripping through the campsites at all hours of the night, it does to take away the peacefulness of what camping is all about.
All it takes is a few bad apples....
ATVers are the devil!
It's not fair to say that ATVers are responsible for damaging land and property. That's as ignorant as me saying that dog walkers are responsible for the poop on my shoes, my bicycle tires, and my yard, and that all trails, roadways, and grasslands should be off limits to dogs. We can't blame a sport for the poor behavior of a few people who participate in it. Remember when snowboarding was to blame for all the bad things that used to happen at all the ski areas? Now look at the sport, it's accepted and loved by people from all walks of life. ATVs are a great source of fun for people of all ages and interests. The rest of the country has opened there eyes to this, why haven't we?
I think it is fair to say
I think it is fair to say ATVers are responsible for damaging land and property, because ATVs, by their very nature, damage the land they operate on. Just as dogs, by their nature, poop on the ground (which, by the way, isn't harmful and biodegrades).
Your right to have fun does
Your right to have fun does not give you the right to infringe on my right to peace and quiet.
like dog poop?
So, I would rather see a designated trail for motorized non-street legal vehicles than watch dogs poop and horses poop while walking. I am tired of witnessing the lack of animal owner responsibility. They do more harm leaving crap on the trails, because poop is full of harmful things to others' animals and people. I contracted a bacterial infection from removing dog poop from my shoes, and my dog got worms from rolling around in horse poop(I dont know why dogs love to do that).
Are you telling me that all the fauna wont come back if it's removed? Hardly, Are you current on how plants grow and spread? Have you seen the invasive species taking over our lands?
I think Atv people be proactive about what they want. Im sure there is a way to balance the means with the freedom. If they can sell the machines, they should have a place to ride the machines.
it's a joke
Seriously are we trying to blame ATV'ers for the shot up signs? Because we never see ATVs on our street and yet we have vandalized signs! Couldn't possibly be the teens and idiots that party out at Echo could it?
@Newneau: are you seriously
@Newneau: are you seriously trying to say dog poop--which you can easily WALK AROUND--is worse than ATVs, which make noise, pollution, and traffic that are difficult to escape?
I also highly doubt you contracted an infection from dog poop unless you ate some of it fresh from the dog's behind or rubbed it in an open wound.
(also, fauna refers to animal life--plants are flora, the removal of which can cause an ecosystem to collapse, as all life depends on plants and certain photosynthetic protists and bacteria)
Sad
It is sad that Juneau is so restrictive on "fun".
No camp fires
No ATV's
No snowmachines
No camping in certain areas
NO NO NO NO you can't do that...
How is it that ATV's are used throughout the state and people seem to have fun and they are even used as sole source transportation in some communities (Wasilla for example). but not in Juneau....
Let's keep the NO in Juneau.... all fun is hereby canceled for everyone until the capital moves and the road is built.
You can camp almost anywhere
You can camp almost anywhere in Juneau. National Forest land is open to camping, most of the beaches and islands are open, there are a number of campgrounds, and if I'm not mistaken, fires are permitted in most of these places. In any case, I've never had a USFS officer or state trooper tell me to put one out.
It was more fun 35 years ago to ride...
The trouble is that we have been electing greenies that want to have it all their way in this town....we had more riding areas in the 70's than we do now and more noise back then too, Alaska Coastal PBY's and Grummin's were a sign of activity and growth back then.
Juneau has over 100 non motorized trails in Juneau...WTH? Can't we get just a couple of locations that some bark eater won't whine about the pristine wild grasses being disturbed?
Swimmer, the area you are thinking of is Blackerby Ridge and that is exclusively geared for snowmachine use and maybe mountain biking in the summer IF it can get a green light to move forward.
The solution, in my humble opinion, is for the folks that want to recreate on anything motorized, that they need to apply for the various CBJ boards and commissions that are heavily weighted with environmentalists, run for the Assembly, and turn the tide against the SEACC crowd that have turned us into their selfish version of Juneau.
hey persnickey
That house you live in, the car you drive, the road you drive on, your sneakers, your dogs poop. all these things "damage land" depending on your perception. You have to crack a few eggs to make an omlet. If people don't have a place to ride their 4 wheelers and dirt bikes (which have been accepted in american society) they will make their own. This is one of those things that people are passionate about. It looks like atvs are in juneau to stay no matter how many restrictions are thrown at them, it makes sense to embrace it and designate land for the activity so that other land is less likely to be damaged.
I think the noise issue is an
I think the noise issue is an easy one to fix.....its called a muffler, i ride a atv and i cant stand those loud bikes either and im sure if it meant the difference between riding and not riding most people would fix it. Also the two stroke engines are very very loud but i have only seen a few of those out and about and its not like they even make them anymore so its not a permanent problem.
As far as the smell.... once again two strokes are the culprit and on there way out.
Environmental damage? Echo cove looks exactly the same way as it did 20 years ago. Montana creek road looks pretty much like a dirt road to me and im not sure how much damage you can really do to a dirt road. There is that area if muskeg after the rifle range which some fool completely trashed but even that area was untouched until a couple of years ago and it was probalby some spiteful idiot who did that due to some misplaced sense of retribution.
To lump all riders into one category is silly, an idiot is an idiot whether they are walking there dog, riding an atv, driving a car, or making ridiculous statements on the internet. The key is to establish a designated place so that the responsible people can have a place to go and then we put the hammer down on the idiots who dont.
There is no use trying to
There is no use trying to debate this issue with PP. She's the chapter president of the NIMBY crowd. With all this talk about how ATV's create pollution and disturb the environment, she had better be walking to work every day and eating organic from her own garden.
ATV Park
Riders: If somehow you're given some remote parcel to develop, go ahead...Model yourselves on the very small crowd of Frisbee golfers who put their own money and sweat equity into their golf course. I've seen Frisbee golfers hauling buckets of gravel, by hand, in the rain, to create their playspace. Are you riders willing to put your bucks and your backs where your mouths are?
Goldbelt: Don't cry about too little patroling out Echo Cove way...It's your land, you have a rent-a-cop subsidiary, and your road extension beyond Echo Cove was built w/ public funding already. Either take it upon yourselves to shut down the ATV riders on your lands or help them develop a safe, secure, remote riding park the riders can patrol and maintain.
That's "he,"
That's "he," akbrdguru.
@T4YQA: it's not a matter of what causes damage and what does not, it's a matter of scale. Roads prevent vehicles from having to chew up the dirt, trails prevent people from causing much damage to the surrounding area, and dog poop--dog poop isn't really an issue. It is an issue when people collect dog poop in a plastic bag and leave it on the trail, however.
You have to understand that the ground isn't just dirt. Most plants are bolstered by symbiotic fungi that live in the dirt (when you see a mushroom, that is the fruiting body of a much larger fungus underground), and some even require them. When you tear up the ground, you kill the fungus, which prevents plants from growing back for some time, and even then on a retarded scale. It takes quite a bit of time for the ground to become healthy again.
And in intertidal areas, this is even worse. Intertidals are small, very fragile ecosystems, and when ATVs tear up and down the beach, they cause tremendous damage.
Anyways, I am for a designated area for ATVers to ride where the damage they cause can be mitigated. I'd still prefer they take up some other hobby, though. People are too accustomed to changing the world to fit their wants, rather than changing themselves to fit their environment.
jnuffwc ... you statements make no sense
Campfires can be made in designated fire rings only in Juneau, there is a reason for that. I wouldn't want people just camping whereever they wanted to. There are campgrounds in the juneau area for just that reason. You can't make the comparison of how people in bush communities use ATV's as a form of transportation compared to Juneau. We have a road system and ATVs are not allowed on our roads as I do not believe they are licensed. Besides the people wanting to use ATVs here in town are not using them as a "source of transportation" like in the bush, they are using them recreationaly. There are plenty of "fun" things to do in this town, a new pool, skiing, skating on twin lakes, music, biking hiking, etc, So quit your boo hooing, rules are in place for the good and the saftey of all.
Just because someone builds
Just because someone builds an ATV does not mean who ever buys one has a right to ride it where they want to. Know the laws BEFORE you buy. Just like with everything else. Thats the way it is.
We have laws for good reasons: They work to protect the public from individuals that are inconsiderate of others.
Also do folks know who is on the assembly? Look because they are not greenies and our Governor? not a greenie, chamber of commerce people? not greenies.
Will someone please tell me where all the greenies are that are causing problems!
So.... if all things that cause damage and are a nuisance.......
are banned... does that mean we get to turn in our kids to the city when they turn 14? Statistically, and recently, the age group from 14-18 are responsible for the almost quarter million dollars in damage to our town from fire, theft and graffiti. Lets ban everything that causes damage... throw the kids into city hall at 14. Turn in our car keys. Euthanize our dogs. Come on !!!
Can we have an intelligent debate in this forum without name calling, unfounded accusations and rhetoric? Really? The comments here are embarrassing.
So.... if all things that cause damage and are a nuisance.......
are banned... does that mean we get to turn in our kids to the city when they turn 14? Statistically, and recently, the age group from 14-18 are responsible for the almost quarter million dollars in damage to our town from fire, theft and graffiti. Lets ban everything that causes damage... throw the kids into city hall at 14. Turn in our car keys. Euthanize our dogs. Come on !!!
Can we have an intelligent debate in this forum without name calling, unfounded accusations and rhetoric? Really? The comments here are embarrassing.
IN reply to peace and
IN reply to peace and quiet......I have no doubt that if atvers were given an opportunity to develop a piece of land to suit there needs you would see a massive volunteer effort to make it work, just tell us where you want us and enjoy the show!