An Alaska Department of Transportation and Public Facilities presentation on the Auke Bay Corridor project to the City and Borough of Juneau Assembly Committee of the Whole Monday evening met with dissatisfaction from many Assemblymembers, as the department’s plans for the speed limit through the area were questioned.
The DOT&PF plans to rebuild the curve in the road between Auke Lake and Auke Bay Harbor to be comfortable for 40 miles per hour driving speed, while changing speed limit and warning signs posted at 35 mph to reflect the standing “speed order” of 40 mph for that section of road.
“We’re not changing the speed limit, exactly. We’re designing to the current speed order,” explained DOT&PF project manager Greg Lockwood. “We’re not changing any speed orders. We’re just designing the road to be safe.”
But Assemblymembers said they have received public feedback asking that the speed limit not be posted at 40 mph. Some, according to Assemblymember Jesse Kiehl, have even suggested the speed limit for the whole area should be dropped down to as low as 20 mph.
“I’ve traded emails with three companies that run great big buses through here,” said Kiehl. “One said, ‘Don’t change the speed limits at all,’ and the other two said, ‘Drop ‘em to 20 all the way through there. We see a lot more pedestrians. … That’s our concern.’ It surprised me.”
Assemblymember Carlton Smith, who said he lived in Auke Bay for about a year, agreed.
“I just don’t see the logic of doing anything other than 20 miles an hour through that entire area,” Smith said.
Assemblymember Karen Crane repeatedly brought up an Alaska statute requiring the DOT&PF to consult with municipalities about proposed speed limit changes.
“In determining safe speed limits and safe speed zones within a municipality, the department shall consult with that municipality,” reads AS 19.10.72 (b), which was also cited in an email from Friends of Auke Bay organizer Karla Hart that was included in a packet available at the meeting. “The department shall provide notice and opportunity for a hearing before establishing a speed limit or speed zone other than as recommended by a municipality, community council or other community organization.”
“I do not see that consultation has taken place,” said Crane.
Crane rejected a suggestion by David Epstein, the DOT&PF’s traffic and safety engineer for the Southeast Region, that discussion over the speed limit wait until after the completion of the project, which is expected to be sometime in 2014.
“I think we should wait until after the project is completed, because the roundabout is going to significantly impact the speed of Glacier Highway within its area of influence,” said Epstein, referring to a roundabout planned to be built at the intersection of Glacier Highway and Back Loop Road, up the hill from DeHart’s Auke Bay Store, as part of the Auke Bay Corridor project.
“From what I’ve heard, I don’t think that they will be satisfied with looking at this issue after the road is built,” Crane responded.
Epstein, Lockwood and other DOT&PF officials at the meeting repeatedly stressed the importance of “balance” between the interests of having a pedestrian-friendly community in Auke Bay and maintaining the area as a “through corridor,” in Lockwood’s words.
“I don’t feel like we’re making compromises on safety,” Lockwood told the committee. “We are balancing, but we are not making compromises on safety. We’re improving safety.”
Assemblymember Randy Wanamaker said he believes the speed limit is the only concern that the public has with the project.
“I gather from the public that they’re concerned about the amount of noise and the safety issues with the increased traffic speed in that area,” said Wanamaker. “But the design has acceptance.”
Kiehl took a different view. He expressed concern that the road is being designed for a higher speed.
“If you design to a standard where it’s safe to go a lot faster, it doesn’t matter what signs you have up there,” said Kiehl. “Your speed study’s going to show you people going a lot faster than that.”
Al Clough, Southeast Region director for DOT&PF, warned that if the design of the road is significantly altered, it could endanger the nearly $12 million in federal funds going to finance the improvements due to delays and the construction schedule would go “out the window.”
“If we’re going to redesign the project … I cannot guarantee that we’ll just be able to suspend it and then restart it in 12 months’ time,” Clough said.
The roundabout and Back Loop improvements, a $5 million project, is being funded with state money.
Assemblymember Johan Dybdahl, participating by telephone, proposed that staff work to submit a request for consultation on the speed limit to the DOT&PF.
“I would like to make it a formal request,” Crane agreed.
While Deputy Mayor David G. Stone, chairman of the committee, said he was unclear that there was consensus on how a potential resolution should read or what it would include, he remarked, “I think there is an overwhelming consensus of the body that the speed may be inappropriate and maybe could be reduced, and I assume DOT is getting that message.”
“I think the expectation should not be that we have a resolution at our next meeting,” said Mayor Bruce Botelho. “It probably will need another worksession. We haven’t heard from staff.”
There was no objection to Botelho’s suggestion.
After a brief pause in proceedings, the Committee of the Whole unanimously approved a resolution changing the preferred site plan for the Whale Project, a bronze whale sculpture proposed as a piece of public art for the city, from Marine Park to the site of the former Public Works Department building under the Juneau-Douglas Bridge.
The committee also met in executive session to discuss annexation. Botelho said executive session was warranted due to the discussion of legal strategy associated with the subject.
• Contact reporter Mark D. Miller at 523-2279 or at mark.d.miller@juneauempire.com.
Comments (32)
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That was some fast reporting.
20 MPH?
Sorry, but that's too extreme. Build in some sidewalks separated from the road for pedestrians.
Let the designers design a
Let the designers design a safe road and safe speed limits for that road. That is what they go to school to do and that is why we pay them big bucks to do it.
Take the politics and special interest out of the plan.
What if?
Dot needs to just leave the road at 40mph. Without changing it to 35mph, no need for CBJ to stick their 2 cents in to please their friends and the 2 other people that want even slower speeds.
Accidents happen where traffic is congested. Cutting the speed limit in half will cause double the congestion for twice as long. Sounds like a good recipe for more accidents.
Roundabout speed...
...seems to work pretty smoothly at 20mph on Douglas. And this intersection is a MAJOR pedestrian crossing in all directions. The university provides it's share of vehicular and pedestrian traffic and we have an elementary school in the area. Mine shuttle busses pass through there. Harbor traffic consists of vehicles with and without boat trailers, busses and pedestrians. The ferry terminal is a short distance out and a rock quarry before that. All a recipe for disaster at an increased speed limit. So what, Clough? You think the state will pull funding over a slower speed limit? Go ahead! this community is too hung up on railroading projects through based on subsidy stipulations. I would rather see my grandkids survive that intersection than to compromise to make sure we get the dole.
skirkz
It's not the roundabout they're talking about. 20 mph there would be appropriate. Some people are talking about 20 mph from Auke Lake all the way to Deharts.
Reroute the entire road up above the area, on the bench on UAS property then up above the whole developed Auke Bay area, dropping it back down to the original hwy out towards the ferry terminal. Then the old hwy can be 10 mph for all I care, limited only to trucks hauling boats and horse drawn buggies.
What about the poor old guy
What about the poor old guy they decided was in the way and are claiming emminent domain on his entire house? Did they mention anything about what to do about him? Or is he just in the way and going to get plowed under?
speed limit Auke Bay
Do not lower speed limit.
Buses want to have excuse to go slow so they can pitch their passengers and get bigger tips.
This is a highway not a city street. The speed should be such and 40 mph is low for a highway. Pedestrians and other users can be safe at 40 mph if they have any common sense. If people want to walk in roadway, ride on highway without paying attention, they need to be on a different route.
Maybe they should drop the project and move the highway back from water as suggested and let city take over the existing roadway.
The poor old guy with the
The poor old guy with the house in the way - has been spared. The curve was re-designed so his house can stay where it is.
slow it down
My commute takes me out the road every day. I cannot fathom 40mph thru that corridor with the amount of foot traffic from the school, Statter Harbor, the university. Then add the vehicle traffic from boat trailers, tourist buses, rock haul trucks, cars turning in to the post office, fire station access, ferry/Green's Creek car traffic and eventually even Lynn Canal traffic.....it's a scary mix.
So be it if this pot of $$$ is lost or postponed. We're planning the future of our community; slow down the decision and slow down the speed limit.
Speed limits? This town has
Speed limits? This town has speed limits? As far as I can tell folks just drive what they want to drive, regardless of silly signs. I figured they were mere suggestions. There are constantly people driving (usually in a Subaru or old beat up truck) poking along at 35-40 along the 50 stretches. These are likely the same people that already poke along through Auke Bay at 20. Improving the road to allow for 40 mph traffic is a good thing. If it's too much of a hassle for locals, keep the "speed limit" at 35. But slower speeds don't create safer roads, they cause more congestion and harder turnouts for merging traffic. As mention above, this is a highway, designed as a thoroughfare, it's not a community street. Let's keep the buses, trucks, and trailers moving, not tie them up in the middle of the road.
This is ridiculous
The assembly should stay away from micromanaging these kinds of things. Artificially lowering speed limits makes the highway less safe becaue the majority of drivers will drive at a speed that is comfortable to them. The highway will end up with those strictly obeying the 20mph and those that drive at their comfort speed. This means more accidents, especially vehicle/pedestrian type. Glacier highway thru Auke Bay is a great example heading out, who drives that at 35. Go with the technical aspects, drop this as one of your concerns and do what you do best, like the whale sculpture. Sheesh
Auke Bay too Speedy
..Do what is requested by the residents of the bay. Slow the limit to 30 and don't be in such a hurry. Hey Clough, the money is always there so don't be such a "good ole BOY...
20 mph is asinine.
Lived out the road for 22 years now. 20 mph thru that corridor is INSANE! (Please put down the crack pipes folks). There are three features that currently force one to slow below 40 mph. (1) curve at the Auke Bay P.O. (2) sprial curve at DeHarts (Y-intersection), and (3) spiral curve at Auke Bay Lab.
It would save DOT some $$$ to leave the Auke Bay Lab curve alone. This would provide a desirable level traffic calming, but would do nothing to improve vehicular safety. Not sure how this affects putting in a sidwalks on the seaward side though.
The roundabout itself will provide a practical level of traffic calming and a safter pedestrian x-ing location. I think the existing 35 mph is reasonable, but I could live with 30 mph. Without enforcement, speed limits are commonly ignored.
And as a suggested TBMP - busses should drive within 5 mph of the posted speed limit. And that wide turn out of the Allen Marine facility is a total cluster-f.
Why spend all this money at all?
Why not just put in a traffic light and be done with it? That would solve the problem of drivers getting in/out of Statter Harbor and Back Loop and it will cost taxpayers less.
Why Signal doesn't work.
If you've even been to Auke Bay before, you'll notice that the Statter Harbor access road doesn't line up with the Back Loop Road. A single signal system just doesn't "fit". You don't install back-to-back signals 200 feet apart.
Now you could try to line the two intersection legs up. One realignment would go right thru DeHart's parking lot, essentially putting them out of business. This was one of the reasons this project received a scrutiny in the first place. The other would be to realign the Back Loop Rd. leg to match the Statter Harbor road, but this would buy out several private homes. That would go over like a lead balloon too.
The modern roundabout has its place and is superior to traffic signals in many circumstances. This is one of them. Of course, there's always the "do nothing" alternative too.
A word on speed
"The roundabout itself will provide a practical level of traffic calming and a safter pedestrian x-ing location. I think the existing 35 mph is reasonable, but I could live with 30 mph. Without enforcement, speed limits are commonly ignored."
With the roundabout providing a calming measure, why encourage speeding up out of it as you enter the most congested and business heavy area (Post office, elementary school, businesses..etc)? Posted speed limits are commonly ignored in the absence of other calming measures that make it safer for pedestrians and bicyclist.
The speed coming off the Gastineau bridge
to the Roundabout is 30 mph, and it works just fine - people slow down appropriately to make the sharp turn. We don't need a 20 mph at the Auke Bay Roundabout. Most of this is just quibbling... leave the speed limit what it is, and everything will work out fine. If after opening, an adjustment becomes necessary - so be it.
Oops - I deleted double post - sorry.
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Lower it and keep the bend in
Lower it and keep the bend in the road. I can't believe DOT wants to remove this bend, they have far too much money on their hands.
This area is also a school zone, business, boat haul out etc....
@Outdoor Junkie
I agree. It would be nice if the tourist buses just did what the rest of us do - LOOK for oncoming traffic before making the turn. I drive that almost every day as well, and I've lost count of how many times they've made me lock up my brakes. The tourist buses think that's their private road. Doesn't matter if they are going in or out from the ramp - they just turn regardless of traffic.
I want to thank our assembly
I want to thank our assembly members for listening to all the concerns raised by the public!! Thank you.
Assembly members said they have received public feedback asking that the speed limit not be posted at 40 mph. 40 mph is too fast for the area and I think DOT “the state” is overreaching here. DOT stressed the importance of “balance” between the interests of having a pedestrian-friendly community in Auke Bay and maintaining the area as a “through corridor".
Look we are talking about people here and in my book people come first not a "through corridor". What the heck is on the other side of this through corridor anyway....well, not much.
DOT take a chill pill, will ya and leave the bend in the road.
Talk about Government waste; use it because we will lose it?
Then how about giving these funds to CBJ and lets repave some of the horrible roads in our neighborhoods that need it.
I like the idea of a stop
I like the idea of a stop light, this would save money and solve most of the problems.
stop lights
Stop lights actually cost more money and are less fluid for traffic. The round about in Douglas works great. I'm glad they are putting a round about, not happy the city is interfering with the project.
highway or local road?
Is Glacier Highway in Auke Bay a highway or a local road? This is the crux of the problem.
Seems the DOT engineers think this is a "through highway" and should be treated as such with a higher speed limit.
Those with driveways that open up on to Glacier Highway, walk dogs near home, teach kids to ride bikes safely near home, walk to the post office on this road, live in the neighborhood, etc.....want the local road safety maintained and improved.
DOT's "full speed ahead" approach is just wrong. Slow it down.
Twogood
Tell me, was the highway there when you moved into the area?
@ Lat58
Thanks for asking, as you help make my point. My out the road address was indeed called Glacier Highway 20 years ago when I moved to this area. The appeal was and still is a good neighborhood, and hopefully will remain so for walking kids, grandkids, dogs. I don't live in Auke Bay but I drive thru on my daily commute out the road. I live the traffic and safety challenges in this corridor 7 days a week.
Safety versus Patience
I too drive through the Auke Bay area often but do not live there. It seems dangerous to me the way it is right now, I have seen so many close calls, cars darting out to get into the flow of traffic, and pedestrians struggle to make it across the road. I think it should be made safer and if that means lowering the speed limit that is what we should do. Not to offend, and you probably don't want to hear this, but complaining about lowering the speed limit because of commuting is odd. Do you realize you are debating less than a minute of your time (d=r*t)? I personally would rather give up a minute and save a member of our communities life and limb. We cannot be selfish and live as a community.
vote4paulnowlin@yahoo.com
You just got my vote, Mr.
You just got my vote, Mr. Nowlin.
Talk to the Assembly
On another note, I am pleased that so many contacted the current Assembly members about their concerns. I am told that this is rare, but like the old saying about "two heads are better than one", 30,000 heads are even better. Perhaps some members are just against something you want, but if they do not know what you want, or are concerned with, they cannot even consider it. Keep up the good communication Juneau.
vote4paulnowlin@yahoo.com to tell me anything.
vote-4-paul-nowlin.com for more information about me.