Planning for a second ice rink facility in the Mendenhall Valley is misguided and endangers the community built up around Treadwell Ice Arena, Douglas resident Robert Sewell told the Douglas Advisory Board Wednesday evening.
The Alaska State Legislature appropriated $650,000 earlier this year as a grant to the nonprofit Juneau Community Foundation, specifically for design work on a prospective new ice rink in Dimond Park.
But Sewell, who also spoke against a second facility at an Aug. 22 Treadwell user group meeting in the Mendenhall Valley Public Library, said he believes a Valley ice arena poses a “threat” to the Treadwell community.
“I think if it goes through, it will cut into revenues that go into Douglas,” Sewell told the board. “If it goes through, we won’t have the … public investment in infrastructure in this part of town, and it will undermine both the community that’s developing and, specifically, the winter sports community there at the rink. And I don’t think it’s in the public’s best interest. I also don’t think we can afford it.”
Rep. Cathy Muñoz (R-Juneau), who represents the Dimond Park area in the Alaska House of Representatives, was a key player in securing the appropriation.
“The ($650,000) shows up, and suddenly people are talking about building a Taj Mahal … out in the Valley,” said Sewell, reusing a term he had used at the Aug. 22 meeting to describe proposals for a high-end new facility. “No further conversation about over here. And I see, personally, that as a threat cutting into what’s going on with the Treadwell now.”
At previous Treadwell user group meetings this summer, proponents of a new Valley rink contended that a facility in Dimond Park would be more accessible and convenient for families. The proposed site adjacent to the Dimond Park Aquatic Center is within walking distance of Riverbend Elementary School and Thunder Mountain High School, and the Valley is considered Juneau’s population center.
For his part, Sewell said Dimond Park has received a disproportionate amount of investment already.
“There’s, as far as I can count, at least four major public investments in that area,” said Sewell. “What has Douglas gotten out of it? Nothing.”
Sewell, who referred to Treadwell’s cost recovery of about 51 cents to the dollar, also said he does not think Juneau can afford to run a second rink.
“I personally can’t see why we’re supposed to, as a city, have two Zambonis (ice resurfacers), two staffing patterns, two cooling systems, two heating systems — I mean, it starts running on you,” Sewell argued.
The City and Borough of Juneau has neither committed to funding construction of a rink nor operating one if it is built. However, the JCF has previously indicated that it does not intend to be the long-term operator for a new facility.
While Sewell said he thinks Juneau does need a second sheet of ice, he suggested it be built as an add-on to Treadwell.
Several members of the board nodded as Sewell spoke. After he finished his presentation, board member Adam Garner concurred with the concerns Sewell expressed over a new rink drawing people away from Treadwell to the Valley.
“What’s going to happen with this is if they build down there, Treadwell’s going to be just an overflow,” Garner said.
Chairman John Delgado thanked Sewell for coming to the meeting at the Douglas Public Library.
“You’ve opened my eyes,” Delgado told Sewell. “I’d like to investigate it further. And as a board, I’d like to investigate it further.”
“I agree,” said board member Marcheta Moulton.
Sewell said he is organizing a Sept. 26 public meeting from 6:30 p.m. to 8 p.m. at the library in Douglas to discuss a second sheet of ice for Treadwell. He framed it as something of a counterweight to the meetings focusing on the Dimond Park design proposal for which the Legislature appropriated $650,000.
“I, personally, am sick of the thing being pitched in the public as, ‘Well, of course it’s going in the Valley because Muñoz came up with $650 Gs to do the planning for the Valley,’” said Sewell. “So I figure that there needs to be some airing of the alternative view.”
• Contact reporter Mark D. Miller at 523-2279 or at mark.d.miller@juneauempire.com.
Comments (41)
Add commentNice job
All true. The Valley rink is a trojan horse. Once it's built, we end up having to feed it.
And in the meantime, we have crowded classrooms and can't afford school nurses.
Besides, forget the skate rink. I want to see a second ski area built on Thunder Mountain.
Maybe it should have been
Maybe it should have been built in the valley in the first place. You guys built it in the middle of nowhere, as far from the population center as possible, and then are all up in arms when people advocate for one that is convenient and meets their needs. Also, make the dang thing year round! Its not that hard....
I can see both sides
I can totally see both sides but, I would definitely love a rink in the valley too. Living out the road has limited me to joining in on the hockey fun since so many practices or games are late at night (10pm) and it prevents me from joining. The same would be said if they had built a rink in the valley in the first place...the people who live in North Douglas may have reservations to drive so far late at night too if the valley was the only option. There must be a compromise somewhere. I think a small complex in the Valley would be great. But we should deal with our schools first and allow well trained Medical Assistants to help out with the nursing shortage.
Move the Capitol...
...to Dimond Park!
It should have been in the Valley
to begin with.
I can understand Mr. Sewell's
I can understand Mr. Sewell's argument, and I would make a similar argument in his place as an advocate of the Treadwell rink. But he doesn't speak for the majority of J-D residents, and has a very finite view. The fact that hockey practices often aren't starting until 10pm is evidence enough that more ice is needed. The additional fact that many "up the road" are unable to participate is evidence enough that a more convenient location is needed for the second sheet. The Valley location would be great, and I fully support the movement toward this goal.
the valley
didn't want the rink when it was built. Some folks still have "sink the rink" pins, look into it. I bought a house on North Douglas because I play hockey and want to be close to the rink. Treadwell was designed with two sheets of ice in mind, as a community we need to work with what we have.
spread the resources and keep it cheaper
Do what is already in the plan. Keep the ice rink together. Add the second sheet in Douglas, which would keep cost down. The valley doesn't need everything (I live there), it's peoples choice to live out the road or not to travel to play.
Douglas vs Valley
Most of the people who fundraised for YEARS to get that rink are Douglas folks.
And they did it in the face of thousands of people who scoffed that Juneau needed a rink at all.
My kids sold t-shirts, helped raise money for a rink that they were probably going to never be able to use. Douglas people made it happen with good, old-fashioned Douglas pride and hard work.
Those who keep saying it should have been in the valley in the first place obviously don't know the history of the Treadwell Arena.
Love the townies greed
Come on all you townies. You said the same thing about the pool. If you ever go there you will see that it is very well used by people you never saw at Augustus townie pool. We have a split population. It's just a fact. We need to accept it and plan for it.
The Valley will fill a second sheet of ice on day 1. Douglas is a shrinking population at the furtherest point in our community. It was a terrible place to put it in the first place. We are a Northern community and should have a second sheet of ice in the Valley.
Obesity is a huge problem. I dont skate but I am absolitely in favor of building things that promote activity. Parks wants to build a new park under the bridge, which is really housing for inebriates, to build a park to view a metal whale. A park where you can "park it" and stare at a big goldfish. Let's build a park where people exercise let's build a second dheet of ice.
Oh and I don't skate.
City responsibility
is for the ENTIRE city - it's important to remember that. The world does not revolve around the 5 mile radius centering Diamond Park. In addition, none of us drives very far for anything, compared to most places in the US, or even Anchorage. Fiscally, a valley sheet of ice is unsound - then we'll be supporting two buildings who will both likely support themselves at less than 40% - even greater if the proposed Taj Mahal plan goes through.
Lastly - even if there is a sheet of ice in the valley - adults and kids alike in league will STILL have to drive to Douglas, as games are always spread between the venues, just like soccer and softball. If there are two sheets of ice in Douglas, it's likely that adult league games will be earlier.
and Concerned? I'd bet $100 that the valley pool doesn't pay 50% of it's costs.
Endagerment and a Threat? Give me a break.
Mr. Sewell needs to quit being selfish and realize there are other people that enjoy playing hockey who don't live in downtown Douglas.
In fact, some of them live in the valley too, and while he may see it as a "threat" to his beloved hockey community, he'll just have to get over it.
Bottom Line
The original Treadwell design did not include a second sheet.The original plans did not even have locker rooms or bleachers. A second sheet came later as part of the Parks and Recs Comprehensive Plan for Douglas. A second sheet at Treadwell will cost about $2.5 million and yes you would need a second Zamboni.
CBJ Parks and Recreation does not have the $2.5 million nor would voters approve a ballot measure for it.
But there is a real possibilty of a $7 million gift from the state for a valley rink. And yes the money is the result of politics. Is Kertulla gonna get the money for Treadwell? That is trhe only way that will happen short of private construction.
Those opposed to the Munoz rink all support a second sheet of ice. But because the cash aint there it aint gonna happen in Douglas. So I guess the dystopians prefer no second sheet at all if it is in the valley.
The $2.5 million to build a second sheet at Treadwell could be used for many years to operate a valley rink if needed. CBJ does not have to operate he rink either. The $650k is there to look into that as wel as what size the facility would be.
The Taj Mahal comments are totally baseless because no design concept has been formulated let alone approved by anyone. .
A rink with a 100 x 200 sheet of ice is by no means a Taj Mahal.
The Juneau swim commnity has grown exponentially as a result of the opening of the Valley pool and AB pool is used just as much as ever. Just try to get a lane with less than 3 people in it at a lap swim.
Consider the source...
..and I'm not picking on Mr. Sewell.
This was not a meeting of an Ice Rink Location Advisory Committee. This was a meeting of the Douglas Advisory Committee.
It's their job to advise CBJ on Douglas issues, such as the impact of a second rink somewhere other than Douglas, or the elimination of the Post Office. Period.
Mr. Sewell is missing the silver lining....
When the valley ice is built, your rink will be way less crowded - you might even be able to use it during normal waking hours! All the Douglas and downtown folks won't have to deal with the valley suburbanites stealing their ice time.....just like the downtown pool is now - uncrowded and relaxing!
Taj Mahal
As an avid TREADWELL arena user,(hockey player,coach,parent of hockey player & figure skater). I would like to say that the CBJ only needs a second sheet of ice if they are going to do it right. What I mean by that is that the new facility needs to be able to draw more people and different user groups to it. So in a sense it needs to be a Taj Mahal. It needs seating for 1500-3000 people, it needs a food service vendor, it needs a pro shop, it needs a warm area for viewing the events and it needs a space for adults to be able to consume adult beverages while watching events . It needs curling lanes as well, (bowling on ice).
The facility has to remain open year round to allow for the rigorous training needs of our figure skaters whom if serious must now go out of town during the summer for their training.
Unfortunately for me the valley is the logical place for a new arena done right. I live closer to TREADWELL than the valley.
Juneau almost always looks at these projects as how do recover costs associated with it. Quality of life is how! More choices, more facilities that offer better lifestyle choices and other bright airy indoor activities for a waterlogged population.
With more options Juneau might retain more of its young adult population. This in turn brings with it a new vibrancy new ideas and eventually more money in the coffers.
DO IT BUT DO IT RIGHT
Skater????? and Rink Expert????
“I personally can’t see why we’re supposed to, as a city, have two Zambonis (ice resurfacers), two staffing patterns, two cooling systems, two heating systems — I mean, it starts running on you,” Sewell argued.
A second sheet would need all of those things. Plus waste heat from the Dimond Park pool can be used for a valley rinks energy needs.
I don't recall seeing Mr Sewell on the ice at Treadwell. At least not in JAHA games nor at pond hockey. Since he is such an expert on ice rinks I would like to see his ice sports CV.
It makes more sense to expand
It makes more sense to expand the existing Treadwell location. Practices and games could begin earlier regardless of where a second sheet is located. People wouldn't be shuttling here and there for multiple children who may be playing overlapping practices and games at different rinks.
I love using the aquatic center just as much as anybody but seeing as how Dimond Park has the Fieldhouse, softball fields, outdoor turf field, high school, elementary school, aquatic center and possibly a library it seems to be getting crowded.
staff our schools first...
We've built all these new schools and now we're having trouble coming up with money to hire enough teachers for our kids. Let's address that first before building more ice rinks, libraries, whale statues, etc. which will need staff of their own.
Oh, I guess the whale statue doesn't need staff... or does it?
Planning for the future
Not too long ago we heard City officials telling us that the back side of Douglas Island will be the "new Valley" in the future, since that's the most feasible area to foster expansion.
If that development comes to pass, Douglas will become the new 'center' of Juneau. Thus more infrastructure should be targeted toward that area in order to best serve the entire population.
So...
More people live in the Valley. More kids live in the Valley. So why are we building community activities on Douglas? If there was more real estate on Douglas I might live there.
Before the Valley pool, I went to the downtown pool with my children once every 2-3 months. Now I go to the Valley pool 1-3 times per week. I have never been to the ice rink on Douglas, but if there was one in the Valley, I might visit it once or twice per week.
It's just impossible to get the kids out of school and visit the Douglas rink, after homework, extra-curricular activities, etc, on the weekdays. It is even difficult on the weekend. But if my kids could ride their bikes to it in the Valley, if it wasn't a commute to and from Douglas, I'm sure my family would put it to use.
aynrand - sources please
First - I have a very hard time believing one zamboni couldn't service two side by side sheets of ice. Stagger the use times by 30 minutes - done.
Second - no one has ever said that there was funding available for building - where did you get that idea?
Third - there were mentions of a grand plan - I'd call 2,000 person seating and heated viewing areas pretty cushy - and how do you come up with the idea that if the state forks over $7million (a questionable claim at best) that the city won't be responsible for running it? That doesn't make any sense at all.
Lastly - as a person with no children who doesn't skate or use the valley pool, who forks out quite a lot in property taxes and city taxes for Parks and Rec and stuff for schools - I don't think it's selfish of me at all to ask for some fiscal responsibility on the part of the city. More ice - ok. But why pay 3x as much for it, plus double (at least) the maintenance costs?
Perhaps Valley residents would be willing to pay 20% more in taxes and have Douglas and town resident's taxes cut by 20% - if it's so important to them to have everything within half a mile of their house.
From the July minutes of the
From the July minutes of the aquatics advisory board re: cost recovery for the two pools:
"AGB, with in kind, is at 38.63% for the year. DPAC is at 68% for the year."
"In kind" means that if the school district and other user groups were paying for use of the facilities, the cost recoveries would be 39% and 68%. I cannot find anywhere what the actual (in real terms) cost recoveries are.
http://www.juneau.org/parkrec/documents/July2012minutes.pdf
Treadwell is somewhere around 50-51% cost recovery (with the same kind of "in kind" stipulation).
Rink
Building an additional rink in the Valley will likely increase skating in a significant amount, provide for more convenient utilization and might not vastly increase operational costs if done properly.
There really do appear to be elegant solutions with regard to operating a second sheet of ice in the Valley that will not destroy the current Treadwell Arena or diminish the use of the Douglas facility.
Do the study and and focus on operations, scheduling as well as building design.
So the cash for a valley rink
So the cash for a valley rink is a bribe to reduce oil taxes. Will it be named the Parnell Oil Rink?
With cost recovery only 51%,
I keep hearing the douglas rink is a huge success, but if cost recovery is only 51%, something is out of whack here. Why build more facilities until this one pays for itself? Maybe the hockey supporters will cough up $$ to get another rink? Nor likely in this town. Just keep putting more on the taxpayers. How about adding a whale sculpture while we're at it?
I haven't heard anything
I haven't heard anything about the University in this...is it possible they might be able to field a hockey team if the valley rink was built? If so, I'd be much more likely to support it, even if it was Taj-Mahal-esque. It would certainly be more likely to bring in winter visitors from Canada and up north, and that uptick in visitor dollars might be enough to offset the operational costs...
Sewell not truthfull
At the August 22 meeting the Parks and Recs director presented design options for a proposed valley rink. Option "A" was for a rink the same size as Treadwell.
To assume that a large rink is being proposed is a flat out lie.
One of the other 2 options was larger but a rink that seats 1,500 that would be a multi-purpose year round facility is hardly an extravagant facility.ip don't think ,any rink inAnchorage or Fairbanks seats fewer people.
"aynrand"
YOU'RE not truthful, unless your name really is Ayn Rand----Robert is calling it as he sees it.
As he saw it
As he saw it Biil Clinton didn't have sex with that woman.