The Juneau Economic Development Council hosted a meeting for downtown revitalization groups and stakeholders, Monday at the Hangar Ballroom.
The night’s keynote speaker was Keith Jones, west coast regional transit director for URS. The company builds streetcar and bus transit systems among other products.
Three stakeholder groups, made up of local architects, real estate developers, business owners and City and Borough of Juneau staff met over the previous months and have decided on three main initiatives to revitalize downtown Juneau – additional housing, improved aesthetics and transit-oriented development.
The initiatives were categorized as infrastructure attitudes and retail and business services.
Greg Fisk, champions the effort to enhance downtown transit oriented development. This development could be built around a “circulator” transit system.
“One of the things that is very important is how people get around downtown,” Fisk said.
Juneau had an innovative bus-based public transit circulator in the early 1980s, Fisk said.
Fisk said that when he first worked on the idea of a circulator while at CBJ Docks and Harbors, the primary focus was on transporting tourists around downtown. This use, he said, was not enough to justify a circulator. However, he said, a proper downtown circulator system can be a catalyst.
“It’s much bigger than just moving people it is all about stimulating economic development,” Fisk said. And the city won’t be able to revitalize downtown on its own, he said. “Most importantly [a circulator] gives developers the assurances they need to do the investments that they need downtown.”
A public transit circulator could enhance the City and Borough of Juneau Comprehensive Plan recommendation to improve pedestrian access in and around Juneau’s downtown and Willoughby areas.
The downtown transportation group looked at using buses for the circulator system, Fisk said, “and we’ve looked at something that for some people may seem pretty radical, and that is streetcars.”
As with Juneau’s Capital Transit bus system, the fare box is not expected to cover all costs of the circulator.
“Building a streetcar system is an expensive way to collect coins,” Fisk said Keith Stone had observed. “We want to get people on it and riding,” Fisk said.
The payoff of a circulator may be indirect, Fisk said. A $25 million streetcar system could spark $100 million worth of development along the route.
“Which is not out of the realm of possibility at all,” Fisk said.
A circulator extends a pedestrian’s reach, making the whole of downtown accessible, Fisk said. As an example, pedestrians can ride to lunch and ride back to work over the lunch hour. Frequency is important in this regard. Circulators could pass by every 15 to 20 minutes. Fisk said.
The transit group mapped out a possible circulator route. From the Rock Dump, through the cruise ship areas, up to the capital building area, around to the transit center and Willoughby district, the Federal Building, Juneau Douglas high school and the area under the Douglas Bridge.
“These are the points that we want to connect,” Fisk said.
Streetcars or light rail?
At about 20 percent the typical cost of light rail systems, streetcars tend to service shorter routes, share existing road ways with cars and trucks and use less expensive, lighter carriages than light rail systems. Streetcars are used to extend a pedestrian’s walking or biking access.
Keynote Keith Stone of URS spoke about options regarding an electric streetcar for use as the circulator.
The Portland Streetcar route in Portland Ore. was the first URS streetcar project. The nearly 4-mile route carries and average of 11,000 passengers each day.
URS boasts new municipal clients, El Paso, Atlanta, Arlington, St. Louis and Oklahoma City.
Since streetcars share roadways with existing traffic, Jones said, in general they obey the rules of the road. Though some specialized signals may be needed, he said.
Streetcar stop can be as simple as “glorified bus stops,” Jones said.
Streetcars travel at 10- to 20-miles per hour and can handle the steep grades found in downtown Juneau.
Route construction typically proceeds at about a block a week. In recent builds, Jones said, URS has only had to excavate down into the roadway about a foot. This avoids moving or disrupting existing utilities, he said.
Electric streetcars require around 600 volts of direct current power, Jones said. Overhead lines or battery can supply this energy, he said.
“You can do a car 100 percent battery powered,” Jones explained. “Here in Juneau that might be a feasible option. Another method could combine overhead power where possible, supplemented with a smaller battery in a hybrid approach. Streetcars can also run on diesel.”
Municipalities can select from restored, vintage cars, replica cars with some refurbished parts and modern, new-build carriages. The appearance of the system is important, Jones said. “It will be an icon of your city.”
• Contact reporter Russell Stigall at 523-2276 or at russell.stigall@juneauempire.com.
Comments (33)
Add commentWOW
Me thinks we can cut the funding to JEDC.
This may be perhaps the greatest waste of time money and effort since Mayor Botelho's Capitol building competition.
A 25 million dollar investment in transit can deliver 100 million in new development? You know who rides transit? Tourists and people who don't have cars. Look at the cities that have them. Notice anything? They would all be the largest city in Alaska.
Revitalize downtown? What is wrong with you people? What kind of retail do you think will make it in downtown with downtown rent in a town of 30,000?
Empire, please stop reporting on this and stop encouraging the stupidity.
Wasn't this a Simpson's episode.
It was it was! We are living in a Simpson's show
Lyle Lanely:(READ USR) You know, a town with money is a little like the mule with the spinning wheel. No one knows how he got it and danged if he knows how to use it.
[crowd laughs]
Homer: (JEDC) He heh... mule.
Lyle Lanely: (USR)The name's Lanely! Lyle Lanely. And I come before you good people tonight with an idea. Probably the greatest... Aw, it's not for you. It's more of a Shelbyville (PORTLAND) idea.
[starts to walk out of the room]
Mayor Quimby:(FISK) [at the podium] Now wait just a minute! We're twice as smart as the people of Shelbyville (PORTLAND). You just tell us your idea and we'll vote for it!
Lyle Lanely: (USR) All right. I'll tell you what I'll do! I'll show you my idea.
[runs over to a display covered by a sheet, and he whips it off, revealing a diorama of Springfield (JUNEAU) with a monorail model going through it]
Lyle Lanely: (USR) I give you the Springfield Monorail!
[crowd gasps]
Lyle Lanely: (USR) I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrook, (PORTLAND ATLANTA and OKLAHOMA CITY) and by gum I've put them on the map!
[holds up a map of the U.S. with those towns' names drawn on with pen]
It's like a prophecy, D'oh!
Lyle Lanely: [begins to chant rhythmically] Well sir, there's nothing on Earth like a genuine, bona-fide, electrified, six-car monorail! What'd I say?
[points at Ned Flanders]
Ned Flanders: Monorail!
Lyle Lanely: What's it called?
Patty Bouvier, Selma Bouvier: Monorail.
Lyle Lanely: That's right, monorail!
[runs up to the stage, the crowd begins chanting]
Crowd: Monorail. Monorail. Monorail.
[continues underneath those who speak]
Miss Hoover: I hear those things are awfully loud.
Lyle Lanely: [playing the piano on stage] It glides as softly as a cloud.
Apu: Is there a chance the track could bend?
Lyle Lanely: Not on your life, my Hindu friend.
Barney Gumble: What about us brain-dead slobs?
Lyle Lanely: You'll be given cushy jobs.
Grampa Simpson: Were you sent here by the devil?
Lyle Lanely: No, good sir, I'm on the level.
Chief Wiggum: The ring came off my pudding can.
Lyle Lanely: Take my pen knife, my good man. I swear, it's Springfield's only choice! Throw up your hands and raise your voice!
Crowd: [singing] Monorail...
Lyle Lanely: [speaking] What's it called?
Crowd: [singing] Monorail...
Lyle Lanely: Once again!
Crowd: [still singing] Monoraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaail!
Share this quote
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Marge: But Main Street's still all cracked and broken.
Bart: Sorry, Mom, the mob has spoken!
Crowd: [heading outside to the front steps while singing] Monorail... Monorail... Monoraaaaaaaaail! MONORAIL!
Homer: Mono - D'oh!
Ok just one more
Marge: (Valley residents) I still thing we should have used the money to fix Main Street.
Homer: (JEDC) Well, you should have written a song like that guy.
Brilliant! Absolutely brilliant!
Sleuthing up the script that URS is using for their pitch. Now THAT is some first class detective work.
Gotta agree with concerned. Who will actually be using the monorail? Anything south of the Red Dog is 100% touristville or tank farm. It'll never be anything else. That leaves points north, and who needs a streetcar to travel 4 blocks?
As far as Willoughby District, great idea, but how about they build out the district before we invest $25 million in a streetcar?
Concerned is right - the patrons will be tourists and hobos.
Real question is, why try to make downtown something it will never be? Why not focus our efforts in more productive areas? Willoughby, perhaps.
what's
to do downtown to draw me there in the first place? If this proposed system is going to generate a hundred million, why the comment about the fare box not paying for it? How much moola does the DTBA expect from the city & what's their (DTBA) outlay? How much is the fair? Let's see I already pay 120 a month to park in the garage & @ least 15 bucks for a marginal lunch maybe once a week (frankly there's no restaurant in Juneau that's worth the time & money)so I brown bag it the other 4 days I'm forced to be there. I guess the real question is why go DT at all?
lets work on the rest of juneau
I'm not interested in revitalizing downtown. More housing sure, but a rail car when public transportation can not even find a way to the ferry terminal.
I used to live downtown. I
I used to live downtown. I moved out after the school district took over the charter school and basically booted many kids from school that year (raised the age requirement).
Now I am in the valley. The only reason I go downtown is to work. Then I am back in the valley.
If they built a monorail to go from valley to downtown through-out the day ... that would be a worthy investment.
JEDC
Apparently, the people at JEDC don't have to take a pee test.
If people want to get around
If people want to get around in the downtown area they should try walking. I've used that mode of transportation in the downtown area my entire life. It works and it's relatively inexpensive.
goofy....just plain goofy
When is the money bleed gonna stop? This is the goofiest idea I've read for spending tax payer dollars in a decade.
There already is a "street car" (private business) with lots of stops through a large loop downtown during tourist season.
Jack Nicholson as 'The Joker'
Jack Nicholson as 'The Joker' said it best.... "This town needs an enema!"
It would indeed be nice to flush out everything south of the Red Dog and bring back year round activity in that area...but (lol, butt?) we know that ain't gonna happen
Streetcars and monorails? yeah, it's already been said, this population is 30,000 not 300,000, get real.
The Mayans were right, the
The Mayans were right, the end is near...WOW, is there such a thing as September fools day?
I knew
I knew the time would come to say this. Make parking in the parking garage (that nobody wanted) free. And parking on the street free.
Eat the lost to the city and learn from it - immediately.
#2) don't do stupid projects like that little pocket park. Two round of cash thrown at that. But you don't cut a deal or do a tax break so the building owner behind it might paint his eyesore building. I don't blame him it's not his responsibility to beautify and it's a private property. The expense might not make economic sense.
So instead of using some common sense about aesthetics to improve the corner the city spends a bunch of money and just makes a c-hole hang out for the cussing drunks.
Now they want to spend more on crazy stuff..
No thanks.
The Mayans were right, the end is near...
Bring back "movable feast"
Or whatever that hamburger cart was called. That was good, cheap, and a reason to go downtown.
They need something that's economical, quality and a good value downtown for a convenient lunch.
My gosh, is nowhere safe from
My gosh, is nowhere safe from these "mass transit" junkies?
Go away, just go away...
25 Million
Seems pretty steep for a vintage style transit system to get tourists around downtown. I definitely see a need for a transit system for them. Many of our tourists are not able to walk those long distances. Without tourism dollars, Juneau would be in sad financial shape. I would utilize the year round system, but if that is not cost efficient, seasonal is still a good idea. Perhaps street car style vehicles without the rail system.
This whole idea is stupid.
This whole idea is stupid. There are way too many fat people in Juneau already. This will just discourage them from walking even more. For the general health of the population, projects like these should be shelved and the people that propose them should be fired on the spot.
What happned to the "Innovative" system?
"Juneau had an innovative bus-based public transit circulator in the early 1980s, Fisk said." Where'd it go? Could it be no one rode it and we couldn't afford it? There were many more people in town relative to the Valley then. If it didnt work then, it won't work now!
Revitalization needs to be driven by the market. It can't be driven by a bunch of government-funded bureaucrats like the JEDC.
If CBJ wants development, how about tax incentives for developers? How about streamlining the CBJ anti-Development Department? Government intrusion is the problem, not the solution.
....meanwhile our children
....meanwhile our children are sitting on the floor in their high school chemistry labs, and our Kindergartners have 50 classmates.
Good call.
And they could lay rail at a rate of a block a week? Not the way the CBJ project managers supervise their projects! Maybe a block a month, and $10mil over budget.
I'd settle for...
...a few covered walkways and stairs.
Maybe from the Capitol to the parking garage, from the parking garage around to Foodland, from Foodland back to the Capitol, but going over the ridge.
More people would walk downtown if they could do it in the dry and without icy sidewalks.
There. I just saved the City $24.5 million.
Circulator bus worked
It was free, and it kept a lot of cars from the flats and the highlands from parking downtown. It worked, but the Overstreet gang hated it because it cost the city money, so they killed it.
That was just one of the good things going on in Juneau during the 80s that Bill Overstreet, Bill Ray, Don Madsen, and Hugh Grant managed to kill. Madsen & Grant wanted the growth in the Valley & Lemon Creek where they had property they wanted to develop, so they killed anything that would bring business in to downtown, except for cruise line related stuff.
How about help out by making
How about help out by making Lemon Creek a little nicer looking?? Main street is a junk yard.
Revitalize?
I don't remember it ever being too "vital" even way back to the 50s, all bars and Percy's Cafe.
More than just downtown
I agree with Latitude58 — more covered walkways or other such improvements to bolster what we already have.
In areas where it's feasible, let's cater to walkers (which includes tourists; I see only a handful of them riding the trolley at any give time), or cultivate bike-friendly areas. I just don't see the need to dig up the streets when it seems there is already perpetual construction downtown.
Let's make this place better for valley, Lemon Creek and Doulgas residents so the "beautification" is spread around a bit. Downtown is great, but it's not the only thing in Juneau that needs attention.
They really should just move
They really should just move people/businesses from lemon creek to the valley and keep lemon creek the "junk yard of juneau".
Sync - just a question~
You said "I moved out after the school district took over the charter school and basically booted many kids from school that year (raised the age requirement)."
I'm not sure what you mean by that, so I'm just asking for clarification. My son started at The Charter School in 2002, in Kindergarten, and attended it for 8 years. (till 2010) At no time was the age requirement raised and kids booted from the school. Am I just not understanding what you're saying here?
Basics
Let's start with the basics and have the streets and sidewalks cleared of snow in the winter months. I chose not to go downtown BECAUSE I could not access the sidewalk from my parked car - I couldn't even open the door.
Down Town Economic Development Council
First of all they need to change the council from JEDC to the Down Town Tourist Development Council. That way no one will mistakenly think they represent JUNEAU.
Secondly; the stakeholder groups are made up of
local architects, real estate developers and area business owners,
and not the vast majority of tax paying public. As I see it, they're wanting to use our tax dollars for their own personal gain. Personally I'd love to see my property taxes spent in my poorly lit neighborhood with potholed streets. I really don't give a darn about downtown, it's dirty, smells like a urinal, and there are only a handful of business not catering to tourists, none of which I have any desire to frequent. Do we need to mention the parking disaster, every time in the last 40 years they've talked about making it better, it's only gotten worse, a lot worse. With all of this in mind, if those business's want more local trade they should consider moving to where locals live.
JNUKara
On 2005 I enrolled my daughter (who was 4 at the time) into the Juneau Community Charter School on Harris and 4th. The following month, JSD took over enrollment and upped the age limit to 5 years old (same as rest of JSD).
That basically booted the kids who were enrolled due to not meeting the new age requirements. If this was not the case, then many parents have been misinformed.