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Neither business nor government built the Tongass

Posted: September 29, 2012 - 7:05pm  |  Updated: October 1, 2012 - 12:01am

By now Mitt Romney’s remarks referring to 47 percent of Americans as victims is tired news. Pundits across the country have chewed it to pieces just like they did with President Obama’s “you didn’t build that” remark in July. However, neither were classical political gaffes. Both are entirely relevant to the debate about the roles business and government should have in shaping the path to individual success. And in Southeast Alaska lives a clue that goes beyond the President’s message but came from the genius of a Republican President. It’s called the Tongass National Forest.

To begin with, both candidates took part of their opponent’s message out of context. Obama told an audience on the Late Night Show that “if you want to be president, you have to work for everyone, not just for some,” implying that Romney wouldn’t look out for the interests of almost half the population if he were elected. What Romney meant by saying it wasn’t his job to worry about people who pay no income tax was that, as a candidate, he wasn’t focusing on trying to win their vote.

Obama’s “you didn’t build that” speech wasn’t, as Romney implied, an insult directed at people who have started successful businesses. The President was saying that government built roads and bridges, and the internet it developed have significantly contributed to the success of American business owners.

And that’s where the Tongass enters this debate. It was set aside as a conservation reserve by the federal government more than a century ago. It was one of 150 National Forests that President Theodore Roosevelt established by presidential proclamation. In his autobiography he wrote that he acted to prevent exploitation by “land grabbers” and “representatives of the great special interests, at the expense of the public interest.”

Roosevelt was a Republican with progressive ideals that included a distrust of large corporations. His administration broke up the huge Standard Oil monopoly. It imposed new government regulations on the railroads. And he was a conservationist who, on August 20, 1902, “reserved from settlement, entry or sale, and set apart as a public reserve” the islands from Chichagof to Prince of Wales. Six years later the Alexander Archipelago Forest Reserve would be merged with the latter established Tongass National Forest that today it encompasses 17 million acres.

In size, the Tongass is comparable to the forested lands in the states of Maine and Minnesota. However, ninety-six percent of Maine’s 17.7 million acres and just under half of the 16 million acres of forests in Minnesota are privately owned. No one can say for sure what would have happened to the Tongass under such circumstances. In all likelihood though we’d have a lot less say in how the land and its waters were managed. And the fact that it’s public land ensures we have ample access for hunting, fishing and recreation.

What’s Romney’s position on public lands? In February he told the editorial board of the Reno Gazette-Journal that he doesn’t “know why the government owns so much of this land.” He said he’d find it unacceptable if federal agencies prevented “the population from developing their coal, their gold, their other resources” such as timber. He may as well have said that the only value of public lands comes from the extraction of natural resources.

As residents of Southeast Alaska, we rely on the Forest Service to manage the Tongass for multiple uses, not just for its timber value. But we’re not victims crying for government entitlements. That label belongs to the big timber companies who operated the pulp mills for four decades. When they couldn’t get enough of what they wanted, which was government subsidized logging, they left.

Of course Roosevelt didn’t build the Tongass. The forests were here long before the Russian and European explorers sailed into the Inside Passage. But as an avid outdoorsman who frequently hunted in them, he believed it was “vandalism to destroy or to permit the destruction of what is beautiful in nature.” He understood the forests were created by a force greater than businesses and the government could ever be, and he entrusted us to work together to ensure they’ll still be here for future generations to enjoy.

• Moniak is a Juneau resident.

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sefisher
690
Points
sefisher 09/30/12 - 09:32 am
7
7

I attended some of the round

I attended some of the round table meeting on the Tongass.
Merrill Sanford was all about tearing the Tongass up for resource development, period. Now he wants to be our Mayor.

What we need in our Mayor is someone that can see the big picture this is why I support Cheryl Jebe as mayor for Juneau.

Calypso
6882
Points
Calypso 09/30/12 - 12:54 pm
3
9

Well, Rich, you can

Well, Rich, you can pontificate all you want with what you imagine would have happened to all the federal lands if they had been held privately. Truth is, we don't live in a parallel universe and we'll never know.

However, it furthers your political ideology to paint the darkest doom and gloom picture.

Anyone else notice the talking point from the left - 'you conservatives want dirty air, dirty water and while you're at it, you'll push granny off the cliff'?

It's silly and there's no evidence to prove the rhetoric.

Here's a question for the progressives that like to scream "Forward", which in itself is funny, as they take us back to, oh let's say, Teddy Roosevelt!!

What do you suppose drives a free market, capitalistic society - private property or government owned lands? And remember, you're answering the question as a citizen of America (even though you have visions of France and Norway as shangri la!)

I have to give you credit for realizing what Romney was expressing with his 47% comment. Good job!

However, no fair giving Obama a pass with his "you didn't build that" comment. He honestly believes that government is big brother. By the way, who supplied the money for building "roads and bridges"? Yup, taxpayers and lots of dollars paid by businesses, large and small. So, in fact, they DID build those "roads and bridges".

Latitude58
14419
Points
Latitude58 09/30/12 - 07:52 pm
2
4

Tourists and the Tongass

Frenchie raises an interesting question: "What do you suppose drives a free market, capitalistic society - private property or government owned lands?"

No way of answering all of that, but here's one example: Here in the Tongass the Forest Service considers 'view shed' when doing timber contracts, and doesn't allow clearcuts down to the beach. This is to help keep the view pristine from the cruise ships.

So here's an example of a private business benefiting from government owned and managed land. If it was private lands, the land owners wouldn't have cared one bit about the cruise passengers' views.

Calypso
6882
Points
Calypso 10/01/12 - 08:59 am
4
4

@lat - sheesh, you had to dig

@lat - sheesh, you had to dig deep to come up with viewshed as a good example to promote government ownership!!

And if a quick search is correct - even private owners have to preserve the "view" in certain areas. It's achieved through land use regulations and zoning imposed by whatever government body.

http://www.nh.gov/oep/resourcelibrary/technical_bulletins/documents/scen...

You're going to have to think of another obscure example to convince me that government owned is better than private.

cheeesypoof
1897
Points
cheeesypoof 10/01/12 - 09:33 am
1
4

what drives a free market, capitalistic society?

That question is sort of silly. Are you asking what the driving force is behind a free market? Or the driving force behind a capitalist society? Greed drives capitalism. I'm not sure that's what you intended when you asked the question.

A free market can exist anywhere that a market is given the opportunity to determine the prices. Capitalism is an economic system based on individual rights. These are not one and the same, obviously.

A free market can exist in a socialist economy as well as in a capitalist economy. A true free market society is something entirely different, however.
Kevin Carson, a political theorist and political economy scholar has this to say:

- a true free market society would be "[a] world in which... land and property [is] widely distributed, capital [is] freely available to laborers through mutual banks, productive technology [is] freely available in every country without patents, and every people [is] free to develop locally without colonial robbery..."

Capitalism in its existing and historical forms in human socities does include government intervention. In general capitalism adopts a government intervention that benefits the ruling class, as opposed to socialist socities intended to benefit the rest.

Suggesting that capitalism will never do anyone wrong is nothing more than a pipe dream. Capitalism is not a free market society and never has represented anything of the like. It's only been described this way in order to fool the gullible.

National Parks are not popular among republicans today... Ron Paul would like to do away with the National Parks Department. Leave it to the states to be responsible stewards of this land. States with financial interests and limited resources. States with neighbors who would inevitably compete for these resources.

And if you think preserving our most precious resources resembles a step in the wrong direction and that Roosevelt was not looking out for our best interests, then enjoy your McDonalds super sized meals. I'm not sure why you live in Alaska anyway...

Calypso
6882
Points
Calypso 10/01/12 - 10:10 am
3
4

@puff - nice spin and word

@puff - nice spin and word play. I'm not buying what you're selling. Redistribution really isn't my thing...

"A capitalist system is also called a free market economy or free enterprise."

"In a socialist economy, there is no market as such. The government provides for the people."

And with all due respect, Kevin Carson is pretty much a kook. He appears to promote anarchy and a stateless society which most of us Americans aren't really in to.

Where do you progressives find these guys to follow and to further your talking points? Must be the universities, huh? Yikes...

cheeesypoof
1897
Points
cheeesypoof 10/01/12 - 10:39 am
0
2

calypso

ok... I answered your question. You dismiss it based on what exactly? A couple random quotes you found without reading the articles they were from?

A capitalist system is called a free market economy... doesn't mean it qualifies as one. Our capitalist system is not a free market economy. There, I just disproved your vague argument.

Rosemary Peavler is a freelance writer and self-described business expert. Sure, she can form an educated opinion on the matter, but she fails to acknowledge the fact that in a socialist economy, a free market is theoretically possible. It's been supported by socialist parties in the past, even.

Kevin Carson is considered an expert among his peers and is a recognized, published scholar in political theory. You can dismiss him as a kook, but he's a kook with far more education on this matter than you and I. Mr Carson isn't the only one who can decipher between capitalism and free market theory, however. Political journalism is not reviewed in the same manner as scholarly publications.

As far as where we progrssives find these people... you mean experts? Well, I don't know what to tell you there. It's not like liberals have a patent on this.

Calypso
6882
Points
Calypso 10/01/12 - 11:31 am
2
4

Well, puff, we'll just have

Well, puff, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I feel pretty confident that there are more Americans on my side regarding our country's free market system and form of government than subscribe to your "theories".

"Mutualist Political Economy" theories are best left in the faculty lounges of our higher institutions of learning!!

I've changed my mind - Kevin Carson isn't just a kook, he's downright dangerous.

cheeesypoof
1897
Points
cheeesypoof 10/01/12 - 04:43 pm
1
1

"I've changed my mind - Kevin

"I've changed my mind - Kevin Carson isn't just a kook, he's downright dangerous."

Ya like how? Are you saying information is dangerous? You may think intellectuals are dangerous, but I think it's because you just can't relate...

Calypso
6882
Points
Calypso 10/01/12 - 08:56 pm
0
4

Nice sideways jab, puffy.

Nice sideways jab, puffy. Typical progressive - when you've got nothing to say, call the other person stupid.

Carson is dangerous because he subscribes to this -

http://www.mutualist.org/

Kenb41
416
Points
Kenb41 10/05/12 - 01:55 pm
2
0

Actually, Calypso, we CAN tell what would have happened

to National Parks land if it had been privately owned by looking at what happened to MOST privately owned land up until the 1960's.

It was despoiled beyond repair.

There are hardly any privately-held lands anywhere in the U.S(OTHER than those specifically owned by someone as wildlife preserves). that aren't total wastelands. Privately-owned mountains in West Virginia are actually being blasted away in the name of short-term profit for the few. G-d knows what might happen here if somebody thought there was gold deep inside Denali.

We can clearly assume, based on that, that what was done to the privately held lands across this country would have been done to the National Parks lands and the wilderness areas if what Cecil Andrus called the "rape, ruin and run boys" had got their hands on them.

Private land owners didn't care about clean air and water for most of our history. They didn't get it that the things we need for survival are finite and irreplaceable(you can't make artificial oxygen or synthetic water). The ones who push for megaprojects today STILL don't care about it. They still refuse to accept that we have a global environmental crisis. This proves that large, self-interested private land owners simply can't be trusted not to put or survival at risk.

Yes, we need jobs. But it doesn't have to be brown jobs or nothing. We don't need to be stampeded by corporate arrogance into treating our ecosystem as a giant Vietnamese village that has to be destroyed in order to be saved. It isn't either/or, and we don't have to put our survival OR our dignity at risk to feed ourselves.

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