oh and by the way by your own statement and your own opinions, your own parents are child abusers.

is that why you have your head buried in the sand all the time ?

because of these statements you guys are making right now is why America is in such high standing when it comes to the education status and child behavior right ? what you guys are saying in your statements has been implimented all accross the country by bleeding heart teachers forced to deal with undisiplined children is not working. Our country is slipping fast and if something isnt changed its gonna get worse

now i dont believe in child abuse or "beating or being violent" towards children but i do believe in creative and corporal punishment.

Now you both have painted me in an untruthful light because you dont agree with my opinions and think i have "no business being a parent"

PP you jump on everyone who has a difference of opinion than you do and cast them as villianous criminals. I'm sorry for what ever tragic circumstance that happend to you as a child that gives you such fear in life.

I am of the opinion that hot sauce and a cold shower is not violent. Being spanked and whipped by a spatula could be though. I'm sorry you were abused.

Again, these are just my opinions. feel free to get your panties all bunched up again :)

Please provide facts and figures showing that children are more unruly these days, because again, every generation of adults going back to Ancient Greece (and probably before) has said that the current generation of children are more spoiled and disrespectful. Obviously this can't be true, because a generation can only be so spoiled and disrespectful before society ceases to function.

Now you tell me: this hot-sauce victim, do you think he'll pay attention in class because he fears pain or because he understands why it's important to pay attention? Do you think he'll actually pay attention, or just not engage in behaviors that make it obvious he is not? And, perhaps most importantly, do you think this will have no effect on whether he enjoys Mexican, Thai, or Indian food in the future?

You have to understand that kids (all mammals, actually) go through a period of "imprinting," where behaviors are learned and internalized much more easily than as an adult. This is why every clinical psychologist takes into account your childhood, because the majority of what you are today comes from what you learned as a child (and is the reason why it's easier to learn other languages and modes of thought as a child). When you teach a kid to be afraid as a child--surprise, surprise--he/she becomes a fearful, insecure adult. If you teach them that inflicting pain on others is how you make them "behave," then they'll grow up thinking just that.

michaelh2001 is right on the money with this.

I was spanked and I never had mean thoughts towards my parents. I thought, "Dang! That hurt! If thats what happens when I break the rules, I better not break them." I had a couple of humdingers too, because I was stubborn. I grew up respectful and honest. I never drank or tried drugs, or any of the other behaviors that most consider part of being a rebellious teen. Why? Because I respected my parents enough to not dishonor them. Part of it was they instilled those values as a baby and were consistent from then on. Had they been lenient and just talked to me until my teen years, I wouldn't have had those values instilled as well. Its just like training a puppy. If you wait until they are older, you will never get a well trained dog. Start early, be consistent, and you can have a champion.

First, there is a big difference between spanking and beating.

My parents spanked us, with a hand or the belt. Depending on the severity of the infraction we might get it again when dad got home. We usually got a warning the first time then if that didn't work a spanking followed. Thinking back, I can't remember one time when I didn't have it coming. I don't believe for one minute that they enjoyed spanking us. There was never any doubt that they loved us. I'm greatful that they cared enough of us to keep us in line.

There are instances when young people need to learn that there are undesirable and often painful consequences to bad behavior. Talking doesn't always work for everyone. Those doing time outs will be the one's doing time in later.

Speaking of power and control. now children are being compared to and placed in the same category of dogs and animals.

I do not see anyone condoning violence or beatings here good grief. I am just of the opinion that hot sauce and a cold shower is not child abuse and that the charges need to be dropped from this woman.

I seen that video, there was no violence and that woman did not enjoy doing it.

AlaskanStyle, I am not going to lower myself to your level. I can tell you probably have an emotional problem, personality disorder, or are mentally ill. I'm sorry for you. I have no idea how old you are, but assume you are an adult. You give your opinions while hiding behind a fictional name. Have you noticed what name I have. I'm not ashamed of my opinions, nor afraid for others to know who I am and how I feel. If you are so sure this isn't abuse, then how 'bout a demonstration. Someone (commentors above) should gather a few of you together, get hot sauce, and put a good portion of it in your mouth, then after you have had to sit there with that in your mouth for the same amount of time that Kristoph had to, throw you naked (she made him remove his clothes) into a cold shower. Personally I'd rather see someone throw you in the channel. What a sight that would be on channel cam. I bet you'd change your tune pretty fast. God help any child that was left in your care. I mentioned Kristoph by name, because he is not just "a child". He is a person with feelings, fears and hopes like all of us. That beautiful little boy does not need cruelty, he needs help. Dr. Phil could see that and had it offerred to the parents. There is a possibility he needs medical help. How 'bout we evaluate you AlaskanStyle, oh, boy, would that be a doozy report. And change your name, you are not at all the style of an Alaskan. Alaskans are warm, friendly, tough people, nothing like you. You are just a marshmallow with a big mouth. Please shut it down, we're not interested in your opinions.

Juneau Services offeres Anger Management classes Barb, I would sugest you apply to them instead of tossing insults and threats. sorry, but with your snotty post your level is far far below mine.

"So I guess the way to keep a puppy from chewing your socks is to just not leave the socks around."

Who told you that or how did you come up with that idea?

Mike

@kpawsuh: what you describe is a system of morality in which people only refrain from doing things because there are painful consequences, and there isn't a shred of evidence that this system is correct at all. If it's true for you, I pity you, but I doubt you'd describe your own morality in these terms.

You're also constructing a straw man argument. It is possible to punish children without abusing them, and not a single person here has advocated for never, ever punishing a child. But there are right ways and wrong ways. Violence is almost always the wrong way.

And FYI, you don't hit a puppy for chewing up your socks. Or pour hot sauce in its mouth. Why? Because it doesn't work and just makes the poor dog afraid of you. Ever adopted an adult dog who grew up with that kind of punishment? I have. It's very sad when they pee on the floor (person's fault for leaving them inside for too long) and cower because they think you're going to hit them.

The thing about the preacher's daughter (and psychiatrist's kids) is also a stereotype with no basis in reality. The very fact that you had to gender it (do preacher's sons never turn out unruly?) shows that very fact. It's a media portrayal, and that is all. What is true is that kids whose parents spend less time with them tend to be more "unruly."

Man you people can sure judge other people that have different ideas and values then you. All of you need to get out of your box and step down from your level which apparently is only used to look down on others. Every child is different and responds to different upbringings. For any of you to say this way is wrong and mine is right is so ignorant I literally find it hard to believe that you all don't need to turn your finger around and fix your problems before telling others they're faults.

and before all else, let me reiterate that any objections I have are to concepts and ideas, not to particular individuals. It's much easier to stay focused and truthfully, makes for a clearer understanding once personalities are out of the way.

So I have a question. Under what circumstances do you think inflicting pain is without a shred of doubt, the absolute best way to teach or reprimand a child? Please think carefully and be prepared to defend your position.

Thanks,

Mike

I cannot conceive of a situation where inflicting physical pain upon a child is the best way to teach or reprimand. I'm not saying there isn't one, I just can't think of one.

Well, wait. There is one, only one. And that's when I was a practicing Catholic. If God told me (like he supposedly told Abraham) to kill or inflict pain upon my offspring, I would have agreed it was acceptable on theological grounds.. What a despicable position I once held! Because of religion!

God: "He who spareth the rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him correcteth him betimes." "Withhold not correction from a child: for if thou strike him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and deliver his soul from hell."

God is wrong, as usual. Or I should say, our primitive ancestors left little to be desired with that weaselly nugget, save for Bronze Age proof on just how vile humans can be even thousands of years ago. Just another reason why rational people would never look to the Bible for moral guidance.

My point? If there almost certainly isn't a scenario whereby inflicting pain is without a doubt the best way to teach or reprimand a child, then shouldn't parents always strive to choose the best corrective option that doesn't include physical pain?

Mike