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DOT details open-deck ferry

Juneau to Haines roundtrip cut by five hours, construction could begin by early 2014

Posted: February 27, 2013 - 10:52pm  |  Updated: February 28, 2013 - 1:12am

A new style of vessel proposed for the Alaska Marine Highway System has received much scrutiny for the use of an open car deck.

Alaska Department of Transportation and Public Facilities Deputy Commissioner Reuben Yost addressed this feature and others of the state’s proposed Day Boat Alaska Class Ferry Wednesday at the Southeast Conference Mid-Session Summit.

Alaska Department of Transportation and Public Facilities released a draft design for the new ferry design Monday. If the project stays on schedule this design or a similar one could begin construction in early 2014.

“What we are looking at is a … deck that in the stern is partially open,” Yost said. “The point is to get ventilation to the car deck.” He said the open deck would have “minimal or no impact to vehicles.”

As currently designed, of the 53 vehicles the day boat carries, 30 would be under cover inside the ship.

An open deck design saves costs on the ship’s HVAC, heating and ventilation systems, Yost said. He said designers are trying to avoid an airtight structure. However, DOT plans to consider both covered and uncovered designs before selecting a final plan. Yost gave an example of potentially using a lightweight aluminum cover.

Opponents of the open-deck design say vehicles could be damaged by freezing sea spray thrown up by intense weather that often hits Lynn Canal in the winter. The new design replaces a much larger 350-foot Alaska Class Ferry design introduced in 2006. The state should return to this original design, some opponents have said.

Schematics of the proposed vessel show a mid-ship superstructure housing the wheelhouse and crew area and upper passenger cabin.

The passenger area would not extend most of the length of the ship as in AMHS’s other ferries. Instead the aft half of the ship is made up of bulwarks that extend 24 feet up from the water line with the roll-on-roll-off car deck inside.

Yost said the tall bulwarks should help prevent some sea spray from reaching vehicles. Another precaution against Southeast weather is designed into the bow, he said.

The new ferry would have a North Sea type of flared bow, “A bow that is designed to minimize freezing spray that could cause safety problems,” Yost said.

The vessel gets its “day boat” description from its daily 12-hour service window. This requirement saves costs in construction and operation as the vessel does not need crew quarters and the crew can return home after each shift. It also is what set the requirement for a quick-loading car deck.

Current AMHS ferries require ferry staff to rearrange vehicles as the ferry moves from port to port. The bow to stern roll-on-roll-off deck would offer a straight shot through the vessel to a set of clamshell doors in the bow. These doors would also speed offloading as they can be opened while the ferry approaches the dock.

Speed is particularly important for the service between Juneau, Haines and Skagway, where the 12-hour schedule allows only one hour in port, Yost said.

“We have to be able to tie up the vessel quickly and unload quickly,” Yost said.

These changes could cut the round-trip time from Juneau to Haines by five hours, “Compressing the operation into 12 hours instead of 17 hours,” Yost said.

Vehicles would load in Juneau at 7:30 a.m. and the vessel would return at 6:30 p.m. — in comparison to the current return time of 11 p.m.

Yost said DOT was tasked with the design and construction of the next generation of Alaska’s ferries. He said the idea is to build the ship the state will need for the next several decades.

“Any time you build a new vessel you have an opportunity to make a change in the system,” Yost said. “Once built it is difficult to change the operation of a vessel. We need to take a really close look at cost. Can we reduce cost without reducing service?”

The Roadmap design vessel is expected to replace the M/V Malaspina in Lynn Canal. As such, its design calls for seakeeping abilities similar to the ferry M/V Taku.

“We want to be able to go in all weather except the most extreme weather,” Yost said.

Yost said DOT also plans to take another look at Lynn Canal weather.

“We’ve heard from folks that past weather modeling of Lynn Canal is insufficient,” Yost said. “We will be doing more detailed study.”

Conceptual designs for the vessel show an overall length of approximately 280 feet. Two 3,000 horsepower marine diesels push the ship at about 16 knots using 85 percent power. The ship should hold a minimum of 53 Alaska Standard Vehicles – 21 feet long – and 300 passengers.

The upper-most deck could house the wheelhouse and crew lounge. Below that passengers can access a library area for computer use, a family and children’s area and a movie lounge on upper passenger deck. An eating area and forward lounge are located on the main deck. However, the design does not include hot food service.

“We can reduce operating costs by not having the full amenities you would have on a mainline,” Yost said.

DOT has a $117 million budget to build two ferries. The first would cost around $50 million to construct. Repeating the design for the second vessel could save up to 10 percent, Yost said. The total expected costs leave DOT with about a $10 million buffer.

Yost said DOT plans to issue a design concept report around April 1. Public comment received before March 8 can be included in this report. By the first of November the department wants to have a detailed design in hand, and wants to begin to lay the keel on Jan. 1, 2014.

Send comments or questions to Commissioner Reuben Yost at reuben.yost@alaska.gov.

The Alaska Marine Highway System also announced at the summit that it will run its fast ferries Chenega and Fairweather for the 2013 season. 

The high-performance vessels have experienced unexpected erosion and corrosion to the multiple engines. Recently AMHS inspected all 16 cylinders on each of the ships’ engines.

The state is still in a lawsuit with the engine manufacturers.

The M/V Chenega is running its route now and the M/V Fairweather is expected to return to service for its March 14 run to Sitka.

• Contact reporter Russell Stigall at 523-2276 or at russell.stigall@juneauempire.com.

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Alaskastu
1793
Points
Alaskastu 02/28/13 - 12:00 am
12
2

"Yost said DOT was tasked

"Yost said DOT was tasked with the design and construction of the next generation of Alaska’s ferries. He said the idea is to build the ship the state will need for the next several decades."

Nothing described here illustrates what the state would need in terms of ferries. With all of the current ferries minus the kennicott being over due for retirement how will these day boats be able to help with our aging fleet? If the aging ferries breakdown, like they do, will these ferries be able to reroute and help shoulder the burden of a ferry down?

The ferries built over thirty years ago have done exactly what we have required of them to do. They tried before to change it up and it failed, hard. Don't try and reinvent the wheel. Replace the ferries with equal performing ferries. You could copy these boats down to the bolt and have them working for us well past 2075.

curmudgeon
324
Points
curmudgeon 02/28/13 - 02:57 am
11
3

Flies in the face

It all flies in the face of what the public wants and needs.

An open car deck coated with ice and slush. Expensive modifications to terminals, because high winds in all 3 locations on this route are not going to allow the kind of quick docking the non-Alaskan consultants envision.

No vans or freight, only cars with drivers. That ignores a large part of the system's traffic, especially if they are terminating the mainline service in Auke Bay.

Overpriced vending machines instead of real food. And I suppose no bar, too?

They're doing everything they can to drive customers away, including those that help make the Lynn Canal route profitable.

All to pay off Ketchikan political supporters.

Angelcrusher
1844
Points
Angelcrusher 02/28/13 - 03:05 am
13
2

The way you build an Edsel...

Oookay, so, what happens in the winter? You obviously can't run both ships year round, and you can't reach Skagway from Juneau round trip in the 12 hour window. No soup for you, Skagway.

Let's also look at the overkill of running a 280 foot vessel between Haines and Skagway. That's a capacity of 600 people and 106 vehicles each direction on two round trips for a route that on a good day probably gets 60 people and 25 vehicles. Are we expecting every Skagway resident to go to Haines for lunch?

Forget about it, Yost. When we get a new governor, this plan is going out the window anyway, so let's go back to the Alaska Class Ferry we've been talking about as REAL replacements.

West4ver
59
Points
West4ver 02/28/13 - 04:52 am
4
7

New Ferries for Alaska

I suggest copying the design etc. of the ferries that service British Columbia. As far as a daily run to Haines goes....can't a community that size do with 3 or 4 trips there weekly anyway...or is this all about connecting to road system for tourists in summertime. I do like the idea of this new design as it does make the service much faster and less costly. And what does "non Alaskan consultant" really mean?? I would assume that professional shipbuilders would have encountered this marine environment in many of their previous jobs. Let's start thinking outside the box little and not be afraid to try something different than what we are used to.

West4ver
59
Points
West4ver 02/28/13 - 04:57 am
5
5

Ferry for Hoonah

How bout a ferry like this new design for a Hoonah-Angoon-Gustavus trip and increase their service as they have been getting shafted this last number of years....used to be that the "Alaska Marine Highway" was just that, a marine highway for Alaskans. Now the ferry schedule does not allow for trips to Juneau for a day or two so medical/dental/etc. could be taken care of. Oh well....off the soapbox.

northwestclam
234
Points
northwestclam 02/28/13 - 05:48 am
5
3

As far as scheduling

We always ask ourselves why we can't make ANY Alaska Airlines flight out of Juneau on any ferry schedule. Why do we always have to spend the night?

snagger
8488
Points
snagger 02/28/13 - 06:49 am
7
10
northboy
329
Points
northboy 02/28/13 - 07:31 am
6
5

Road

Unpublished

all the way up Broadway and a small shuttle ferry to Haines. Make the fast ferries day boats for Hoonah, Gustavus, Angoon and Sitka. Give a little money to Inter lsland Ferry system and service Kake more.

Latitude58
14743
Points
Latitude58 02/28/13 - 08:11 am
2
6

Summer/Winter

I could see this ferry working...maybe.

The partially open deck would be a problem in the winter, for the cars stuck out there, but how full would the ferry be in the winter? I'm guessing that the winter crowd could hunker under the cuddy cabin.

Likewise, they'll need to rebuild the terminals. I don't see an issue with weather in Auke Bay - if the Gravina Island ferry can load and lunload in any weather, a 280 ft boat will be able to do likewise in Auke Bay. My recollection is that Haines and Skagway aren't that much worse for exposure. The terminals should be workable.

I have some concerns about sea-keeping. Is Yost saying they designed the hull before they had a clear understanding of N. Lynn Canal weather? Really? And the "North Sea flared bow"...yeah, it might reduce spray, but it will also increase accelerations (slamming) as any boat owner knows. Will the cars on the forward part of the deck be bouncing around in lively seas?

Curmudgeon mentioned that no freight hauling would be accommodated. True? If so, that's a huge drawback. Huge. Our smaller communities are already hostages to the bargelines, this would just hand the hijackers the keys to the airplane.

Trying to stay open-minded. Costs need to come down. Some services like a bar aren't absolutely necessary. But anything coming out of this administration is to be viewed with suspicion.

kiki
1373
Points
kiki 02/28/13 - 11:08 am
7
2

original design

The original designed ferry would have worked much better for the conditions and the needs. And at what point do the revamps to the ports for the clamshell bow doors get added into the budget. I suspect they will add that into a different funding source to hide the fact that it will indeed raise their costs above what they stated. Im also still trying to figure out how anyone can bring their pet on board these ferries in the winter with the unheated, open roof car decks. This project is a shameful embarrassment to our State and a financial boondoggle waiting to happen.

From Sen Egan re: New Ferry Design Concept
The Senate Transportation Committee will hear a presentation from DOT Commissioner Pat Kemp on the design concept for new AMHS shuttle ferries today, Thursday, February 28th. If you’re interested in hearing the presentation, come by room 124 from 1-2pm or tune in online at http://akl.tv/.

kmkmci
717
Points
kmkmci 02/28/13 - 03:19 pm
8
2

Giant step backwards.

This is a fiscally irresponsible move.

Design fails on comfort, safety, and capacity. No solarium in the most scenic and popular (and pays for itself) part of Alaska's entire Inside Passage.

12-hour turnaround no guarantee in frequent windy weather that often takes over 6 hours between Juneau and Haines alone.

Capacity inadequate for summer. Design inadequate for winter.

Bad for public health and safety, bad for tourism/commerce.

Deliberate avoidance of public input/public process.

Back to Plan A please. 350-foot, mid-size, Alaska-class ferry. Take the federal money and put it out for bid if we can't do it in Alaska. Or budget enough for it to get it done in Alaska.

islander
1257
Points
islander 02/28/13 - 04:55 pm
3
1

slam - dunk

is what I believe the term is for a proposal that goes through without any changes. As I watched the tele today I could tell the two DOT/PF leaders are already set on this idea. Any one who says this plan was not a done deal before the governor announced the change from the Alaska Class Ferry is not following the bouncing ball. You don't go from a news release to a fairly well complete design with full cost estimates in six weeks unless you've have them already in hand.

See the cat --- see the cradle as Kurt would say.

billb
8077
Points
billb 02/28/13 - 05:59 pm
4
1

FERRIES

In the Winter there will be NO passengers! When the ferry docks in Haines or Skagway who is going to chip the ice off of the cars?

Alaskastu
1793
Points
Alaskastu 02/28/13 - 11:08 pm
1
1

I'm still at a loss. Why

I'm still at a loss. Why change something that has worked for decades? Unless you can provide more services and or cheaper, why the change?
You know tourism is huge and the state caters to them, do they not see that they actually could develope the ferry system to make the amhs more appealing to independent tourists and at the same time make SE voters more then happy?
Maybe after these partially open deck ferries fail we might get an administration that stops playing politics with alaska and will get real results that appeals to an actual majority.

Why haven't the regular Parnell defenders commented? I expected at least calypso to make a half relevant post by now. Sucks when your poster child comes across as an a$$ hat even to you doesn't it?

macinak
16
Points
macinak 03/01/13 - 10:47 am
1
1

Ferries

I think it is pretty obvious that the long term plan for these ferries is for them to serve as shuttle ferries for the 'road'. They will shuttle passengers between the Katzehine and Haines. Just one more argument to build the road--"Hey, we already have the shuttle ferries".
Other points to consider. The ferries will have to be crewed by people from their home port since there are no crew quarters on the ferries. So what is the possibility of home porting in Haines or Skagway? Also, what is the cost of modifying the Haines and Skagway ferry terminals to accommodate the front loading on/off design?
I for one hope these shuttle ferry boondoggles never leave the drawing board. Give Alaskans what they have asked for, the Alaska Class Ferry.

kiki
1373
Points
kiki 03/01/13 - 11:46 am
0
0

details

Originally, Kemp said the reason the AK Class ferry plan was scrapped was because they let the public take over and too many amenities caused escalating costs. To date, I have never seen any official report saying exactly what those amenities were nor specfics on what raised costs. I would like to see that report, and preferrably not written by Kemp. Everyone is just taking his and Parnell's word. If, in fact, they really wanted this AK Class ferry to succeed and it was due to amenities, you cant tell me there werent areas they could have cut back on, rather than just wiping out the whole project. Our Senators and Reps need to investigate and report back to the public on their findings.

Kemp and Parnell are both acting like the public has no reason to be upset, they are going to give us nice new ferries afterall. The whole thing is a sham and I suspect the poster above is right, its to feed the road fettish and Kemp is only too happy to oblige. But in reality, if anyone thinks Parnell is going to allow a road to be built and take any pressure off the Capital move, they have another thing coming. I suspect that Kemp is being taken on just as much of a ride as the rest of us are, except he cant see it...or perhaps he even supports it.

Not only do they need to add the cost of port re-builds into the cost of the project, but also the money already spent planning the prior ferry they scrapped. The time, planning and design for the AK Class ferry wasnt free.

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